How We Got Here - Ep 2 Transcript

Rachel: Hi everyone. I'm Dr. Rachel Lupien

Stephanie: and I'm Dr. Stephanie Spera.

Rachel: Our climate is in crisis and we all want to help, but we might not know how.

Stephanie: We're talking to people who have figured out how to use their talents to combat climate change and the hopes that their journey might inspire your own.

Rachel: This is How we got here because the earth needs professional help.

Hey, Steph.

Stephanie: Hey Rachel, how are you?

Rachel: I'm good. How are you?

Stephanie: I'm good. I'm good. I'm excited for today because we're chatting with somebody that isn't us. Buthow are you, how was your week? Was it good? Let me know something. What was like something really good that happened since we last talked in your life?

Rachel: Um, Oh, no, no, it's not that hard. So I had a great weekend. I went and celebrated the wedding of my dear friend. Um, but I gotta say I was on full climate change news blast. I was talking to everyone up at the cocktail party. And then later at the reception, we'd had a couple of drinks and I was just talking to these people, most of them had MBAs and where it was like for any of them working in green energy. And no, I was, I was talking about our podcasts. They were super into it, sort of. Um, and I was trying to see if, you know, if they knew anybody we could talk to in the business world, but more importantly, I was telling them that they should really keep climate change in mind.

Stephanie: Just buck capitalism with their MBAs.

Rachel: Yeah. They can be on the good side.

Stephanie: Yeah. I mean, I would rather them fight the good fight from within I think. I could just say you look stunning, stunning, solid picture on Instagram.

Rachel: How was your week? What did, what did you do? Any good things?

Stephanie: What a week my son turned one. He's one years old and he's 31 pounds. And anyone who has a child know that that is a big baby. We call him baby Gronk. Cause he's very strong and smart and he doesn't love books, which makes me want to cry. But we had all the grandparents in town.

I made a cake and we all survived with four grandparents in town It was great. It was great.

Rachel: That's awesome.

Stephanie: I think maybe what we'll do every week, Rachel, is we'll start off by saying what went well in our week and what didn't how's that sound?

Rachel: That sounds great. And I think is important because. A lot of things, there's some emotional roller coasters that happen. And so it's good to talk about the good and the bad sometimes with your friends.

Stephanie: So you had a great wedding where you did look truly beautiful and you spread the climate change news to finance people.

Rachel: They were like all investment bankers. I'm a climate scientist.

Stephanie: Um, what was like maybe a not so good thing that happened last.

Rachel: Yeah. I spent a lot of my week last week applying for jobs, um, which is not bad in and of itself. I, as I explained before, I am sort of in this temporary contract position. And so it's always good to get those applications in, but there was some. Some Twitter drama about a speaker who had written a terrible piece and done more things about how like diversity equity and inclusion work is like terrible. And so a school invited him to give a, a science talk. . And there was uproar rightfully so. And it turns out I was not only submitting an application that week to the institution that this guy works at. And it made me feel like crap.

Stephanie: Yeah. We should care about these things because they matter, but this always shocks me from someone who is like, in academia. I'm like optically, even if you don't care about them, which again is wrong and you should care about things like diversity inclusion, equity, seriously, what are you doing?

Rachel: So that sucked.

Stephanie: And it's so rough out there also. And I would contend, I understand, I am very lucky to have the job that I have. And I think anyone who thinks that it is all talent and there's no luck in there. Kidding themselves.

Rachel: It's tough. How about you? Any bad things?

Stephanie: I've had this manuscript in peer review, which if you to the listener who doesn't know what peer review is one, what a treat, what a treat that is.

Rachel: You're so lucky. Part of the scientific review process and you do some sort of research and you want to publish it for peers to look out for other people to use as foundational for other research has to go through a peer review process, which in itself you're like, okay, this is a good idea. I can't just put something into the world.

Stephanie: Other people have to prove like, validate it and say, no, this isn't crazy. And then you see some of the things that do get through peer review though. Whole other story. I found a paper, whatever major, major revisions, which honestly I'm going to job interview. Because I'm going to turn my weakness into a strength.

Yes. Last time I submitted this paper, it was all rejected. And I think it is a good paper and it had me doubting myself. I sent it to two other people being like, am I crazy? And they said, no, you're not crazy. No, but I mean, it's just, and so it's been a year now and we're still, if that's common too, but

Rachel: I have a paper right now. That's in review. Uh, Sixth journal. Oh my gosh. Six that I've reworked it and submitted it sucks. And it's a sweet paper. I don't get it anyway. . And these things just kind of, I mean, like imposter syndrome comes back, like anything. I do real stuff.

Stephanie: And I once read, I swear, I didn't make this study up. There's like a studyon people who do the peer review and they're like X times more likely to accept it after they drink coffee then before. There's like all these weird things, right? I mean, there's bias and everything don't recognize implicit bias also, but like, man does it really to add up?

Rachel: It's like grading something first versus grading it last out of the class. So we're kind of down on academia right now. So maybe we should talk to somebody who's not in academia.

Stephanie: I am so excited that we get to talk to our guest today . Yes. His name is Martin Witchger, and I'm going to give you a little bio, but I have known him since 2007, which is so long. But official bio: Martin has almost a decade of experience leading digital strategy campaigns, communications, and organizing at national environmental organizations like the League of Conservation Voters and the Sierra club.

Also mobilized Latinex communities for clean energy. He's trained folks on how to use social media for activism and live tweeted, countless rallies, pushing for climate action on the national level. He also has been shoved into the third row of many, a van with me and a group field trip in college, but we were always gained for that background.

He's an environmental activist. He's a digital organizer. He's one of the most delightful people you'll ever meet.

Rachel: I guess we're just going to get right into it. . Can you just tell me what you do? What's your title? Who do you work for? Who are you?

Martin: I am the senior online organizer at the Sierra club and national environmental advocacy organization.

Stephanie: Okay. What, what do you actually do? What is that? Uh,

Martin: So I try to get people to take action. Uh, I teach people about the issues, right about the issues, get them take action, meaningful action, to, you know, push climate change, uh, clean water, clean air, uh, you know, all the issues that we care about. Um, there are, we are, we want our politicians to care about elected officials do, um, Giving ways for them to take action and contact their members of Congress and the like, that kind of thing.

Stephanie: So you're not busy right now.

Martin: Yeah. I follow Congress a lot. So it's like lots of ups and downs kind of crazy right now, for sure. Yeah.

Rachel: So what do you actually actually do, like on a day to day basis? What are you doing?

Stephanie: Right also, can I just interject really quickly? Wow. Instagram and Facebook were down that greatly affect your life.

Martin: Oh, great. Cue. It made it easier. I didn't have to worry about that. Focus on Twitter. That is so true though. I drafted. For Facebook and Twitter, especially, well, Twitter, we could have tweeted today, but Facebook and Instagram and WhatsApp and everything. It is down for like five or six hours. I haven't even checked. Is it back yet? .

Stephanie: So day-to-day Martin, do we see you with like seven tablet is a tablet, an iPad?

Martin: Two screens, two screens, and like 45 tabs each. But I feel like at the typical person, I don't know, but, um, I yes. Drafting social media drafting, email talking to our lobbyists at Sierra Club, talking to our comms folks, you know, it's like it's putting all the pieces together of a campaign campaign strategy, and then implementing it.

Rachel: Right. Day-to-day though. What does that mean?

Martin: Um, You know, those text messages you get from organizations or those emails? You know, you want to get the priority folder of Gmail, not the promotions folder, but a lot of our stuff gets in the promotions folder.

Stephanie: Is there a algorithmic trick or do you just hope someone says not promotion.

Martin: This is the part of job I do not. I do the campaign strategy, the communicate, you know, writing, distilling what's happening, maybe what you see in the news. And. I'm trying to find a way for you to take action and we have the tools for you can quickly send an email to your member of Congress or a number where you can, we can route you to your Senator. And we can tell you what you can say cause you care about climate action. That kind of thing.

Rachel: Uh, well, yeah, I mean, this is sort of, you might be more obvious than other people, but how would you say your work contributes to combating the climate crisis?

Martin: Yes, maybe perhaps more often, but yeah, I, we, we do advocacy, right? Which really is, is that organizing folks to tell their member of Congress, what we think, what we care about and Sierra Club, you know, climate justice organization working for clean air, clean water, protect, public, lands, all of that.

Um, but climate is a central piece right. Of our work. And so we are, uh, actively advocating for good policies in government on all levels. Um, since I work at the national Sierra Club and my specific work is federal work, uh, and I usually follow up. And uh, sometimes regulatory, you know, EPA rules and whatnot.

The last four years was a lot of defense, protecting the rules and the landmark, you know, clean water act, clean air act that were getting torn down by the Trump administration. But. You know, we, we also fought hard elected, awesome, uh, climate champions. And we have a majority that care about climate change and understand the challenges of climate change right in the house and the Senate and the white house.

So now's our moment. Now we're kind of past the build back, better act. It came up. Here we go. I just bought my work, literally what I'm doing right now, which is the most historic climate legislation.

Stephanie: That was a circular thing there, but yes, that's, I mean, first of all, I'm already inspired. Second of all, it doesn't take much for us to pass a historic climate bill.

Martin: Put it, the, this is like our generational bill, you know, we have had decades of working toward this moment and I get goosebumps when I hear.

One of our lobbyists are, are one of our directors of our programs. Um, he rattles off what's in this bill and it's inspiring. It's amazing. It's going to get us on a path to a hundred percent clean energy, right in the next decade or two. Uh, it's going to switch, uh, electric. We're getting really, uh, switch off our car, our transportation to electric cars, charging stations.

Ah, school buses to electric buses, hold transportation, uh, suite of things, um, cleaner do tax credits, uh, replacing all of the lead pipes. This is not really the same issue, but it's an environmental justice issue. Communities of color, you know, there's 8 million houses, I think in the, in the country. I think family households that drink water from lead pipes, lead service lines in every state.

It's not just, it's filled riddled with lead pipes. If we can do this, there's the funding there for replacing all the pipe. Just amazing. So many things. And that's just the environmental climate work of this bill. There's also, I mean, that's, that's crazy, right? It's like legacy. It would be Biden's legacy if they could pass it.

Stephanie: And what makes me nervous Martin is, I don't know when we're going to actually drop this episode and hope it's passed by the time let's put it into the. Yeah. Future celebrating. Yeah, that's been passed.

I'm teaching a class right now: weather, climate, society. And we've been following the bill, right. And it's, and it's really interesting to hear my students' perspectives and hear how frustrated they get when one or two people can sort of derail.

Uh, something large. Right. And they, I hear time and time again, and I agree with them. How can people be? So short-sighted right. And they're right. And you're right. And those two people are wrong.

Martin: Well, and we're focused on the costs. Right. And it's just not help. Like we know the cost of inaction, right? Like, just think of Hurricane Ida and how it devastated so many communities in the Gulf coast and Louisiana.

And that's just one of, you know, all the wildfires. All across the west and flooding that happens, these are major multi-billion dollar, uh, you know, uh, disasters that climate fuel disasters that happen daily, weekly, and throughout this campaign, we've been using them as a hook to be like, we know the climate crisis is here, right?

Stephanie: So, you know, Rachel, the next time you investment bankers.

Rachel: So what you're saying to us is that your work does contribute to combating the climate crisis. That's what I'm hearing.

Martin: I sure hope so. Maybe extremely, directly.

Rachel: Um, so, okay. Let's go back in time. I want to hear about what your first job was, what your haircut looked like when you were a wait for it: martin-ager.

Martin: Wow. I have not heard that.

Stephanie: Um, what was Martina danger doing? I'm never not using this.

Martin: I was playing Viola and thought I was going to be a professional musician. Martine, what you were in the symphony youth symphony. Yeah, but also in college you were in symphony or to. Um, yeah, it was definitely a, that was like a possible career path that never really came to fruition. But that's partly because I was like environmental studies, climate change.

I applied applying for college thinking, thinking music. Um, and then actually my music teacher, my violin and Viola, I kind of switched it halfway through high school.

Stephanie: How did you, how did you get interested in the environment? I guess, how did you go from, I am Martinager playing Viola and going to go to music, gonna major in music to where you are now, which is pretty far from that.

Martin: I don't know if I've articulated this path, that journey, but I get myself into here. But, uh, but it's true. I mean, I guess I was already on the track to moving out of music.

It was a great extracurricular in high school. And I started when I was six years old. So it was a big part of music, classical music. Um, I was that nerd. Weird person didn't know anything about other music. I was just like, I know Tchaikovsky .

 When I learned this, I was like, you know, I loved outdoors, loved nature. Um, you know, hiking, learning about animals as a young kid. Right. Um, and so that was always there. And I think when climate change became, you know, as global warming, as we called it a little narrower term, but, uh, No. It was like front page of the time. There was like a polar bear. Of course, this is what, 2001 or something, 2003. And it was like, but it was starting to become like front page news every once in a while. When I realized that was a thing you could study environmental studies as a major, you know, I think I kind of set my sights on that as well.

Um, so had that in mind, but music was like what I been doing for so long.

Stephanie: I want to say one thing. I think what's really interesting is that I think a lot of us have had these outdoor experiences at children as children that were really formative.

And the national parks has this really amazing program where if you're a fourth grader, right, you get a free national parks pass for. And in some cases that will, if you pay by the carload and not by the person that gets you in your full family. And so think about that, but I think it's really interesting that they chose that age, very specifically for free national park pass because it is so formative. I think a lot of the people I know in fields that care about environmental science or climate change, where I was privileged enough to have this like outdoor recreation time, that really was like, I care about this thing outside.

But I didn't realize you had gone into college being like, oh, also in environmental science, because I didn't go into college and thinking, oh, also environmental science.

Martin: Um, well I was very, I also have, I grew up Catholic and I'm a very social justice minded family. I know, I just articulated like, you know, the nature that like outdoors . But learning about climate change and how it's affecting, you know, people of color and communities and around the poorest communities around the world and around the country and how, you know, the coal plants are in black neighborhoods and like, Just there's this such a people justice issue.

And from coming from a family that worked on immigration and anti-war it like there's so much justice in my family. And so climate justice became a driver as well. Like there was like such a deeper level to even, right. Like it's not just like saving the polar bears. It's like, no there's people that are affected at first and worst of climate impacts that don't have.

You know, are contributing to that as that, um, the most, right? So it's like us in this country, rich folks need to really do the best we can to. I

Rachel: So in college, did you work in, did you have a job right after college? Did you work in the environmental field in college? Or what was that journey? Like? How did you get to this? I mean, you're like got here the li how we got your I'm pretty sure. Digital organizer for the Sierra Club. Right? That's sounds like a very big deal, but you didn't always start. Like, how did you get from no longer Viola stuck in this class with staff three times a week.

Martin: I did a couple years of kind of post-grad volunteer slash uh, kind of American one was an AmeriCorps program and one was, uh, or try kind of like, well, I didn't, like, I was like a Catholic volunteer pro, but AmeriCorps also helps fund it's like, it's a government funded, like.

There's is a wide variety of programs. Right. But I think it's for career, like on the job training, I, I think is like they fund organizations to, to pay young folks, like very little money, but enough to get by, like, and, you know, in a, in a that they might not otherwise be able to hire. So it's kind of like internships, some of our, you know, I think everything from.

So one of it was, I did like environmental education actually in, uh, in the city of Milwaukee, in a public park. And it was great. We taught kids how to canoe and about tree species in the park. And we grow gardened and cooked with the stuff in the gardens. Wasn't really fun. Um, but I was right out of college too.

And it's like, but we're not solving climate change like this. I was creating that new generation. I could tell myself, but I was feeling like the urgency. Needing to get to DC: cause if Martine showed up, we would solve it. You know, that was the cocky 22 year old, but I did make them get myself to D C.

My first job actually was the Christian social justice organization, um, sojourners. And it was an internship that I did kind of administrative assistance and I helped one of their senior people go to talks and, uh, do her travel. I could get her coffee sometimes.

Rachel: Did that, just that sort of exposed you to like what she did .

Martin: And yeah, for sure. And like the non-profit world and how it works and the coalitions they build, you know, so it was, you know, we also like, and how you put on big events when we attended marches, you know, there was in the organization that we're doing climate work, but I want to do more of it at the time, but I, but it was this sorta wasn't the works. Yeah. And then being in DC and be able to go to rallies or show up for other, uh, issues. I remember doing something about against gun violence. It was like the year after Newtown, I think, or something.

And we did some commemoration of like the thousands who had died. But yeah, like how to get people's attention, right. Uh, members of Congress or the media. And so kind of just being exposed to that. So internships and you know, those being like an AmeriCorps type program. Yeah. Exposure.

Stephanie: Yeah. I mean like, yeah, you had this environmental ed opportunity and I think it's really cool that you're like, okay, I know DC is where the climate action is and I want to feel like I'm doing something now. So I'm going to go do that thing. And even though you didn't have what I think a lot of people would think of is like a prestigious. You learn, you got your foot in the door and you've learned how the game worked, I think, right? Like the non-profit climate or all and nonprofit game work, which was really important under some.

Is it Sierra club next?

Martin: No, it was like, I had done two one-year programs, then it was like, what am I supposed to do next?

Stephanie: . But I think, I think it's really good to hear these like nonlinear paths and how you made decisions. You were very proactive about certain decisions, but also were willing to learn things on the job. So after sojourners, you were like, okay, what's next?

Martin: Right. So then I was like, now my time to really look at environmental organizations, right. And, and I, that's where I landed at legal conservation voters, uh, in an online organizing position. So that's where I really learned on the job that they saw my passion for the issue. That's a good writer. You need to, it's a lot of writing, um, content creation, right?

Everything from a tweet size to a Facebook post , which is longer and whatnot. Um, sometimes writing blogs, uh, and then so being articulate that, uh, I think they saw that in me and, but I didn't know. I guess I had the like chops of, I knew kind of an organizing was, and, but online organizing, but also is very native for, I think someone like natively digital people as millennials and whatnot, as we grew up with the boom of social media and whatnot.

And so. My field of digital organizing is digital advocacy. Right. It's like all people my age and like no one really older than us. And so, um, yeah, learned on the job. I was there for four years. Um, learned a lot. That was the Obama administration. We did leaps and bounds, like the clean power plan to clean up coal power plants and, um, all sorts of learned so much.

Right. Is that a decently sized national, um, uh, in, by modernization and so many more like policies and like how, how the, like, how we clean up the environment, how we do climate action, like what a little more of the details. The real details wonkiness is elsewhere, like in policy folks, and that's not who I am.

So it's interesting to find my niche right. Slowly recognizing myself as a communications person, which I never, I didn't study communications. I did, uh, the, the digital strategies, departments of organizations sometimes. In digital or sorry in communications or sometimes, uh, have been split, but there are communications roles.

Right. So, um, I have really, yeah, for the last eight years, uh, been, been in that kind of role and just grown and moved around a little bit and has landed at Sierra club for the last several years.

Stephanie: I think it's funny how you describe your timeline in terms of, uh, like, oh, the Obama years. Oh, the Trump, which must have been real fun.

Yeah. Oh, that's I mean, that's awesome. I think it's, that's such an interesting journey to go in. I mean, I guess you didn't know environmental science or as Rachel and I talked about this before we were both undecided and then you did environmental science, but now, right. You're you never would have applied for a communications job out of college.

Rachel: I feel like. Yeah. So you took a couple, I mean, those two jobs, it sounds like helps you sort of narrow down what you actually really wanted to do. Um, you, you sort of started to talk about this, but what are you really good at besides tweeting maybe, or including tweeting? I don't know. I'm, I'm good at tweeting, but I'm not a, I'm not a communications director.

Like what skills do you use that you do in your job, um, that make you uniquely qualified for your position?

Martin: I it's can be very complicated. Right? It's like, what is this policy thing? And who is like, what is this bill say? Like, so it's talking to her, it's distilling all of the pieces to.

What do we want to tell our people? Like, it's kind of, sometimes people describe it. Like, what would you tell your mom? How would you describe this to your mom or someone who's just not in the reading, the news or not in this space. Right. And so, but we have to pull in the political reality, the what, the actual, like what's in the bill, the wonkiness get all those details, but then also like what's out there in the world.

Is there a pop culture references or like, how do I distill it down into bullet points or...

Rachel: Can I, can I ask, like, how do you do that? Like, like literally, how do you do go from a bill or a news story down to the scale that you go do you start with.

Laying out all the facts are all the things you want in there. And like, can you just like walk us through that? Just like your whole job and that's way too complex.

Martin: Like first you have to educate like, so it depends on where you are. In the campaign, but I think if you were doing a long-term campaign, um, you know, it's a lot of education about the issue. How do you educate many different ways? Like, are there interesting graphics, are there, what other research out there?

What, you know, maybe there's a video you can make about it. Like, so I help, I can work with, I work at a big organization, so like I'm never doing all of these things by myself, which is nice. Um, some small nonprofits or whatnot you're going to do. What you can, but like, we have a video team, we have a graphic design team, like all of that kind of thing.

Um, but you know, so it's developing that whole art education and then like the like low bar asks. So like, you know, can you click through here and send an easy message? Do you think now, can you think about what it means personally for your life? And tell us about that and maybe. W we'll ask her. So yeah.

And then it's like, can you call your, and then needs an elevation of they're about to vote on an issue and then you really need to call, are we going to get when a rally or. There's the campaign, um, or, uh, issue.

Um, well you ask a lot of questions. They're like, yeah. I think some people, some coworkers might just like smile nod. Like when the policy lobbyists are giving their updates and it's like, sometimes I'm being grouped.

You're not gonna, but like, you know, I want to pull up Gchat or do like a one-on-one and be like, so what action does that. Tell me this again in English, you know, I, I try to get from them, like, what does this actually mean? And then I'll turn that into. Okay. But then actually, is this person important? Is it, you know, is it this Senator that like, is this committee like who I'm asking other questions to, how we can have the most influence, use our people power to there's a lot of questions like to affect the change that we want to use our people, how to effect the change.

Um, But then, I mean, that's, I mean, then you just got it, like an open blank word document or clips from our press release something, you know, our comms, people are doing things, but they're talking to the media. They're not really talking to the person getting an email or a tweet, you know? So you kind of have to start with your own.

Sometimes it's like a late at night inspirations and early morning kind of to, this is the writing. This is the writing part and talking about that, but. Sometimes it's like, it's not gonna happen today. I have to draft this tomorrow are going to have to try another time. So, um, but yeah, after being in so long, I'm like, how does it work?

What do I do with my hands?

Stephanie: I tell myself that sitting with a blank word doc for hours as part of my writing. Rachel and Martine just both were like, absolutely not. This is so bad. Walk away.

Rachel: Um, do you know a fun writing tip that I received and have literally never implemented, um, when you have a blank document and you're like, oh my God.

And you just need to like, write some thing, change your font, color to white. And so you cannot read what you've written. You just are writing words. And I've never done it. People like it, I'll try it out.

Martin: Well, get to see all your typos and then you change it back to back to black.

Stephanie: You just gotta put words on a page. And then once you have those words, you can edit them.

Martin: I'm like out for a run or like walking the dog or something. And I'm like, Ooh, that's a good hook. Cause I'm in, it's always the hook you need to like. The tweet side, but subject line, the like how many get people interested, right?

Like you need people to click to then do the other reading to the word it's click, you know? So I'm giving all the trade secrets away now.

Stephanie: You'll oh, I listen to look at the, we grew up with Buzzfeed click theaters. Yeah.

Martin: This is the challenge of our job. Moving beyond clickbait. Total sense to force people, to force, to inspire people, to advocate for the that we believe in.

Stephanie: So you said what you're really good at, do you have things- we're asking all of our guests this- that you're not so good at that you maybe work on or ask for help with and you like, recognize like, oh, this isn't a strength, but I'm okay with it or that it's not a strength.

Martin: I'm a very slow adopter to the latest social, like Snapchat. I never got into it. Never.

Stephanie: I have a question about, is the Sierra Club putting out TikToks or Instagram?

Martin: No, we need to learn someone was good at it. Or if like we knew how to use the, I knew how to use the platform and would be able to, like, we would probably be okay with it.

Rachel: So if there was say no climate crisis. Wow. Wouldn't that be? Great. What would you be doing? How would you be using your skills in a job?

Martin: I'd still be organizing, still be, you know, mobilizing folks to, I think, um, yeah, fight, fight the other systems, capitalism and patriarchy.

It's all connected to the environment. But, um, I am, uh, I am the vice president of a Catholic LGBT organization was elected vice president and the misogyny and homophobia and transplant. The church, but also broader society and, and profess how, you know, we are holy and whole as ourselves celebrating the holiness wholeness and holiness of LGBTQ folks.

Um, so yeah, maybe I would be doing that work that I kind of do on the side slash many hours -

Stephanie: Can I, Martin, I always find it interesting how you're one of the people I know that has such a strong sense of faith, but also I feel like, with climate change people sort of, there are a lot of religious people who claim to very religious and it's sort of the way the country is polarized, right?

Where, and I've always found, I've always loved how you've had this strong sense of faith, but that is just, that is one of the many parts of who you are and how that also like that inspires your social justice, like that inspires your advocacy. And if someone who was raised Catholic, I went to Catholic school for 13 years don't really practice. I like the tradition of there. Right. I wish that that is the piece of the Bible that people took away, like the social justice equity aspects. Right. And not the, not whatever a lot of people are taking on. Right.

Martin: And that's, I guess I was alluding to that earlier, too, right. Like what you do to the least of these, you do to Jesus when he said right.

And like that is. Climate, but so many other issues too, right? Like how do we treat the folks that are marginalized? And that is how we live out being love in the world.

Rachel: That's beautiful. That is beautiful. Yeah.

Stephanie: Well, Martine, do you have anything you want to plug? A newsletter perhaps?

Rachel: That I have a single tweet, a tweet, an Instagram, a Tik TOK, a Sierra club, uh, hashtag no seriously, like who should we follow on Twitter?

Stephanie: Or like, should we sign up for a newsletter?

Rachel: Oh, wait. Oh, okay. You mentioned you have a dog

Martin: I'm failing on all of that content organizer for your dog. Yeah. We have a Homebrew Instagram though. I also Homebrew in there. So there we go.

Wow. Not as exciting. The dog makes appearance brew. Dog is in there.